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	<title>Comments on: Better Gas Mileage as an Economic Stimulus</title>
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	<link>http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/</link>
	<description>where gas mileage matters</description>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-641</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/#comment-641</guid>
		<description>Many people forget about the maintenance costs of thier vehicle.  A coworker had a 14 year old BMW that seemed to always be in the shop for something or another, I got her to gather together all the receipts and it turned out she was spending close $400 month just to keep it on the road, enough for a new car payment. 

Same thing with my 86 Jeep Comanche.  I would take it in to something repaired every few months when I could afford it, granted I was trying to slowly restore it while driving it as my only vehicle, never a good idea.  When I recently got some budgeting software and categorized all my expenses for 2007 my monthly truck maint cost was $300,  wow, I had no idea.   

Of course much of my cost was #1 rare vehicle with no aftermarket parts, #2 Manufacturer (AMC) nolonger exists, #3 High demand causing prices including blue book to double in last few yrs and #4 20 yr old electrical components made by Renault in France, and impossible to find in the US.  Now that I have a new car and dont have to be driving the truck while it&#039;s rebuilt and I can do more the whole thing at once it&#039;s significantly cheaper.

Put all your credit card and checkbook purchases into MS Money for the last year and you&#039;d be suprised what an older car costs you. At some point, despite it being paid for, it costs you more than a new one, if you work out the TCO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many people forget about the maintenance costs of thier vehicle.  A coworker had a 14 year old BMW that seemed to always be in the shop for something or another, I got her to gather together all the receipts and it turned out she was spending close $400 month just to keep it on the road, enough for a new car payment. </p>
<p>Same thing with my 86 Jeep Comanche.  I would take it in to something repaired every few months when I could afford it, granted I was trying to slowly restore it while driving it as my only vehicle, never a good idea.  When I recently got some budgeting software and categorized all my expenses for 2007 my monthly truck maint cost was $300,  wow, I had no idea.   </p>
<p>Of course much of my cost was #1 rare vehicle with no aftermarket parts, #2 Manufacturer (AMC) nolonger exists, #3 High demand causing prices including blue book to double in last few yrs and #4 20 yr old electrical components made by Renault in France, and impossible to find in the US.  Now that I have a new car and dont have to be driving the truck while it&#8217;s rebuilt and I can do more the whole thing at once it&#8217;s significantly cheaper.</p>
<p>Put all your credit card and checkbook purchases into MS Money for the last year and you&#8217;d be suprised what an older car costs you. At some point, despite it being paid for, it costs you more than a new one, if you work out the TCO.</p>
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		<title>By: mpg-o-editor</title>
		<link>http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>mpg-o-editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 02:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/#comment-466</guid>
		<description>@Greg - the 45 MPG el-cheapo subcompact does not exist in America today. The only two cars that you can buy *today* that deliver those numbers are the Prius and Civic Hybrid ... both are nice cars and neither are sub-compacts.  Today&#039;s Civic is as large (or perhaps larger) then yesterday&#039;s Accord.  I&#039;ll wager that if you drive either of these carefully, you&#039;ll be able to double your present mileage.

That having been said, if you upgrade, you won&#039;t see *pure* fuel cost savings equal to $200 per month at 15,000 miles per year until gas hits $6.40 a gallon.

Regardless, with a brand new car covered under warranty, you won&#039;t have the same maintenance costs that come with a car that&#039;s four year years old.  That can be quite a large wildcard ...

As vehicles age, you need to take care of the pure maintenance items - tires, brakes, exhaust systems, timing chains, and the like.  This can quickly add up.

Switching to a more fuel efficient vehicle won&#039;t make your payments in their entirety ... but I&#039;ll maintain that it can substantially offset those costs ...

The government needn&#039;t print and spend more money that they don&#039;t have ... the public need only understand the benefits and ramifications ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Greg &#8211; the 45 MPG el-cheapo subcompact does not exist in America today. The only two cars that you can buy *today* that deliver those numbers are the Prius and Civic Hybrid &#8230; both are nice cars and neither are sub-compacts.  Today&#8217;s Civic is as large (or perhaps larger) then yesterday&#8217;s Accord.  I&#8217;ll wager that if you drive either of these carefully, you&#8217;ll be able to double your present mileage.</p>
<p>That having been said, if you upgrade, you won&#8217;t see *pure* fuel cost savings equal to $200 per month at 15,000 miles per year until gas hits $6.40 a gallon.</p>
<p>Regardless, with a brand new car covered under warranty, you won&#8217;t have the same maintenance costs that come with a car that&#8217;s four year years old.  That can be quite a large wildcard &#8230;</p>
<p>As vehicles age, you need to take care of the pure maintenance items &#8211; tires, brakes, exhaust systems, timing chains, and the like.  This can quickly add up.</p>
<p>Switching to a more fuel efficient vehicle won&#8217;t make your payments in their entirety &#8230; but I&#8217;ll maintain that it can substantially offset those costs &#8230;</p>
<p>The government needn&#8217;t print and spend more money that they don&#8217;t have &#8230; the public need only understand the benefits and ramifications &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/#comment-465</guid>
		<description>@Randy: EPA rating of 25 MPG prior to 2008 or after?  They changed the ratings system in 2008 because the old ones were so pie-in-the-sky (what you&#039;d get driving 48 miles per hour in lukewarm weather on perfectly inflated tires).

But here&#039;s the question for mpg-o-editor... If your car&#039;s paid for, the only way your annual gas savings will be higher than your annual car payments will be if you trade in your 15 MPG SUV for a 45 mpg el-cheapo subcompact.

For someone like me who gets 24 MPG in mixed (78% highway, 22% city) driving, driving 15k miles a year, if I traded to a 40 MPG car, I wouldn&#039;t see savings equal to a $200 a month car payment until gas got over $9.50 a gallon.  For a $300 per month payment, I&#039;d either have to trade up to a 60 MPG car (instead of 40 MPG) or see gas prices hit $14.50 a gallon.

Whether it&#039;s an early termination fee on a lease, adding years to your car payment, or taking on a brand new car payment, the economics of changing cars is such that you have to do a lot of driving and see a dramatic increase in mileage and/or gas prices for you to break even.

If the government wanted to stimulate the economy by promoting gas mileage, the best way would be through immediate credits and subsidies on high MPG cars, like they&#039;ve done for hybrids.  Raising mandatory standards (like Jake noted) takes too long and the economics of upgrading doesn&#039;t work for many drivers if it&#039;s all out of their own pockets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Randy: EPA rating of 25 MPG prior to 2008 or after?  They changed the ratings system in 2008 because the old ones were so pie-in-the-sky (what you&#8217;d get driving 48 miles per hour in lukewarm weather on perfectly inflated tires).</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s the question for mpg-o-editor&#8230; If your car&#8217;s paid for, the only way your annual gas savings will be higher than your annual car payments will be if you trade in your 15 MPG SUV for a 45 mpg el-cheapo subcompact.</p>
<p>For someone like me who gets 24 MPG in mixed (78% highway, 22% city) driving, driving 15k miles a year, if I traded to a 40 MPG car, I wouldn&#8217;t see savings equal to a $200 a month car payment until gas got over $9.50 a gallon.  For a $300 per month payment, I&#8217;d either have to trade up to a 60 MPG car (instead of 40 MPG) or see gas prices hit $14.50 a gallon.</p>
<p>Whether it&#8217;s an early termination fee on a lease, adding years to your car payment, or taking on a brand new car payment, the economics of changing cars is such that you have to do a lot of driving and see a dramatic increase in mileage and/or gas prices for you to break even.</p>
<p>If the government wanted to stimulate the economy by promoting gas mileage, the best way would be through immediate credits and subsidies on high MPG cars, like they&#8217;ve done for hybrids.  Raising mandatory standards (like Jake noted) takes too long and the economics of upgrading doesn&#8217;t work for many drivers if it&#8217;s all out of their own pockets.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-463</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/#comment-463</guid>
		<description>I agree this can be part of a stimulus package. Rather than just hand out $600, why not a tax rebate -- to be applied to the down payment -- of any car with an EPA rating of 25 mpg or better? Maybe another one for taking a low-MPG car OUT of service, with certification that it was recycled? That would not only stimulate the economy, it would lessen our dependence on buying oil from semi-friendly or unfriendly countries, thus having a positive impact on national security.

It makes SO much sense ...that I&#039;m pretty sure the administration would not even consider it....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree this can be part of a stimulus package. Rather than just hand out $600, why not a tax rebate &#8212; to be applied to the down payment &#8212; of any car with an EPA rating of 25 mpg or better? Maybe another one for taking a low-MPG car OUT of service, with certification that it was recycled? That would not only stimulate the economy, it would lessen our dependence on buying oil from semi-friendly or unfriendly countries, thus having a positive impact on national security.</p>
<p>It makes SO much sense &#8230;that I&#8217;m pretty sure the administration would not even consider it&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: mpg-o-editor</title>
		<link>http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-462</link>
		<dc:creator>mpg-o-editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/#comment-462</guid>
		<description>@Jake - I&#039;m not a big fan of our government&#039;s recent mandate for 35 MPGs by 2020.  That&#039;s too little too late. Legislation isn&#039;t the answer. A motivated and educated consumer base can make this happen purely though market forces. And like it or not, gas prices will go up to $5 a gallon ... whether or not that&#039;s due to tax increases (it will more likely be due to continued profiteering).

When people know about the choices that are available they will decide for themselves. Perceptions will change. Look at how the automakers are finally touting MPG numbers in their advertisements (again). 

I&#039;ve been driving a domestic SUV over the past week or so that gets 30% better mileage than its conventional gas engine counterpart. Same vehicle, different engine ... it&#039;s available TODAY, it&#039;s NOT a hybrid, and it&#039;s not pigdog slow by ANY means ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jake &#8211; I&#8217;m not a big fan of our government&#8217;s recent mandate for 35 MPGs by 2020.  That&#8217;s too little too late. Legislation isn&#8217;t the answer. A motivated and educated consumer base can make this happen purely though market forces. And like it or not, gas prices will go up to $5 a gallon &#8230; whether or not that&#8217;s due to tax increases (it will more likely be due to continued profiteering).</p>
<p>When people know about the choices that are available they will decide for themselves. Perceptions will change. Look at how the automakers are finally touting MPG numbers in their advertisements (again). </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been driving a domestic SUV over the past week or so that gets 30% better mileage than its conventional gas engine counterpart. Same vehicle, different engine &#8230; it&#8217;s available TODAY, it&#8217;s NOT a hybrid, and it&#8217;s not pigdog slow by ANY means &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Ludington</title>
		<link>http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/comment-page-1/#comment-459</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Ludington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/02/21/better-gas-mileage-as-an-economic-stimulus/#comment-459</guid>
		<description>A fuel efficiency requirement couldn&#039;t be phased in fast enough to create an economic impact sooner than the next 5-10 years. Over that time span, you&#039;d get more innovation around fuel efficiency by jacking up gas prices to $5-6/gallon, which would force automakers to find alternatives to gas AND reduce dependance on foreign oil at the same time.

I&#039;m all for better gas mileage, I just don&#039;t see it boosting the economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A fuel efficiency requirement couldn&#8217;t be phased in fast enough to create an economic impact sooner than the next 5-10 years. Over that time span, you&#8217;d get more innovation around fuel efficiency by jacking up gas prices to $5-6/gallon, which would force automakers to find alternatives to gas AND reduce dependance on foreign oil at the same time.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for better gas mileage, I just don&#8217;t see it boosting the economy.</p>
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